Announcer: Welcome to the How to Rent Vacation Properties by Owner podcast series. Your host is best selling author and vacation property expert, Christine Karpinski. Today's show is brought to you by homeaway.com, the world's most complete marketplace for vacation rentals. Join the network at homeaway.com.

Christine Karpinski: I am Christine Karpinski. Thank you for listening to the How To Rent Vacation Properties By Owner podcast.

Today's guest is Raymond Butterfield. He is a real estate agent and a broker of ERA Vacation Homes in the Kissimmee and Disney area in Florida. Raymond has a kind of interesting background. He started off working for Disney. He was an engineer. Then, he went on to sell time shares. We'll talk to him a little about that. And then he progressed and started selling vacation homes.

His brokerage specializes in only selling vacation homes, so, they sell very little or no primary residences. So, I think, this is sort of unique for a real estate agent and brokerage firm to really specialize in second homes. We are really excited to talk to him. Hopefully, we will get a little bit of insight about the Orlando market as well.

Raymond, thanks so much for joining us.

Raymond Butterfield: Thanks so much for having me, Christine.

Christine: So, tell me a little bit about you - you said you had started off by working for Disney which is what a fair amount of people in your area do because it employs so many people there. Then, you went on to sell time shares. From there you started selling real estate. Can you tell me the difference between selling time shares and selling real estate?

Raymond: Sure. It is a very stark contrast, actually. When I was doing time shares for Marriott the training was around two weeks of training and pretty intensive, just a lot of sales training. But, it was very much based on the criteria of having them buy today. It is very high pressure techniques that they use, and it is a very learned philosophy. I don't use any of those things today.

In the regular vacation home market it just is not necessary. People understand that it is an investment where time share is more of just buying a vacation forever and not so much buying a property that will increase in value and that has other usages.

Christine: Right.

Raymond: The product is much, much different. The sales techniques are much, much different, and I really enjoy not having to use those kinds of techniques on a daily basis.

Christine: [laughs] Yeah, I don't suppose that would go over very well if you are selling real estate for hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Raymond: No, and that is where the contrast comes in. You really can't do that. I know that there are some agents that probably think you can, but it is just a very solid investment. You can't have people make those decisions on the same day which is what you are trained to do in time share.

Christine: Right.

Raymond: Even with a large company like Marriott, like I was employed by.

Christine: Right, nor do you want to, I mean, because you really want people to make a well thought through, educated decision. You want them to sometimes go home, think about it and make sure that they are making the right choice.

Raymond: Absolutely. What I have noticed is a large percentage of the time that I'll spend with clients is really more about the product and the industry. I won't say there is not a lot of time on the actual property that they choose.

What we really try to do is educate them on the process. Here is how it works. If you buy one here, here is the proximity to Disney. If you buy here, here are the different time periods of the year where you make this amount of money per night based on how you want to manage it.

Christine: Right.

Raymond: We spend a lot of time on explaining the product and the industry and not so much just on each property.

Christine: Got it. OK. So, now we are going to talk a little bit about the market in the Orlando and Kissimmee area. We have heard a lot of sort of "doom and gloom" stories recently about the real estate market.

Raymond: Of course.

Christine: And Florida, especially, not doing so well, taking a huge plummet in prices. Tell me about the Orlando market.

Raymond: The Orlando market; all of those things you said are true to a certain extent. I think that they are a little bit over inflated in the media; however, there are realities to that. There are definitely foreclosures. Foreclosures are definitely at all time highs; however, in the long term due to creative buying opportunities for long term investments, in my opinion what was happening was you had a lot of speculators that were just inflating the market to where it shouldn't have been.

You had people that were looking to flip primarily. They never had any intention of owning the property, of renting the property as you teach people to do. They were just simply in it to flip, and that is what created a lot of this along with some mortgage issues. It was very easy to get loans.

Now, with prices down to what they really should be in what we call the corrected market, leverage is key. Now, you have prices where you can leverage the property very well based on the rentals you can get and the price you can get it for. Those are the main factors: price and leverage. Right now, interest rates are still at all time lows.

I know I say this more than a lot, but the leveraging of the property is very advantageous right now. Whether they are buying a short sale, a foreclosure or just a regular property you can leverage it very nicely now.

Christine: Can you explain that leveraging? I am sure there are some people that are going, "OK, I am not a real estate investor. I am listening, but what does that mean?”

Raymond: Leveraging has a lot of different factors. For one, price is a factor on leveraging. The other is the financing. Whatever your terms are, what kind of loan you are getting‑whether you are using a home equity line that has a lower rate or if you are getting a 90 or an 80 percent loan that has a lower rate, you are basically leveraging the equity that you will have in the property or the equity that is potential in the property against itself. And you are able to purchase properties that are much more advantageous for the buyer based on those factors.

Christine: Right.

Raymond: Interest rate, terms on the loan and, obviously, property values are down to where they can only go up to where they were. I mean, if they were at that point at one time it is only a matter of time. It could be two, three or five years, but people really should have been looking at these as long term investments all along. People just kind of got off track with the flipping that was going on.

Christine: Absolutely.

Raymond: A few years ago.

Christine: Absolutely. I 100 percent agree. I've always said this, even back during the days when it was a sort of quick flip atmosphere. I always said, "Look, this is not a short term. This is not a get rich quick thing".

Raymond: Absolutely.

Christine: But, people did not necessarily listen, and some people did make some money. Now, you had said that you think that prices can only go up. [laughs]

Raymond: Right.

Christine: You know, now, that's a very idealistic outlook. Prices could actually go down, right?

Raymond: Yes, in the short term. But, what I meant by that was in the long term.

Christine: All right.

Raymond: In the supremely long term. Prices around here, you can pick up condos for, depending on... for between 100,000 and 120,000. For the long term, could they go down to 99, 000 or 85 in the next two years? Possibly. But, long term, once again, we are going back to the long term scenario, real estate has always been and will always be a great long term investment.

Christine: Absolutely.

Raymond: It doesn't make a very good short term investment; however, it was profitable in the short term there for a while, and people kind of lost track of that. That's my opinion.

Christine: Right. I get it. I get it. I just wanted to have you articulate that. I think, that was...

Raymond: To further that actually, there was a lot of the, you mentioned, "gloom and doom" that you see on TV. With some of the foreclosures and short sales, because what you are doing is you are buying it under value as it is. And that goes back to the leveraging issue. You are kind of buying a future value. Even if it goes down, you are still buying it at a rate where you can absorb that a little bit because you bought it lower than that.

Christine: OK. So, I am going to play the devil's advocate here.

Raymond: Sure, sure. Go ahead.

Christine: And I am going to ask you some harder questions.

Raymond: Sure, no problem.

Christine: With regards to the foreclosures and the short sales, let's say, for instance, somebody bought in 2006 at the top of the market. Let's just say they paid $300,000 for this property.

Raymond: OK.

Christine: And they bought it with an interest only, negative amortization loan.

Raymond: This is a very bad scenario you are depicting but go ahead.

Christine: Yeah. OK, and in my experience foreclosures that I am looking at have been higher priced than a property that I could walk into the market and buy something that is just on the regular market for. Do you want to speak to that?

Raymond: What? I don't understand. Foreclosures are higher than this?

Christine: Well, yeah, because they were first bought at a higher rate. They had no money down. The bank is into it for a lot more than the market is priced at.

Raymond: That's a good point; however, the reality of the bank situation is that the reason you are seeing a lot of these banks write down a lot of these mortgage amounts is they know that they were a part of the problem in inflating these. My office actually has some short sales and some REOs, REO is basically real estate owned, which a bank is owned property.

Christine: Right.

Raymond: I don't want to use too many strange terms.

Christine: Right.

Raymond: REOs are bank owned, but what we are speaking on is a short sale.

Christine: Right.

Raymond: A short sale is basically when‑let's use that same example that you said‑that person bought it for $300,000, and their terms of their loan are, I think, significant. They bought it at $300,000, and the current value is, say, $200,000.

Christine: Right.

Raymond: The bank knows that they can't get...There is no way for them to get $300,000.

Christine: Right.

Raymond: Let's say the person forecloses and, say, even if they don't foreclose the bank has to still abide by what the fair market value is. If the person is still in the property and if they stop making payments before the foreclosure, sometimes the banks will allow them to do a short sale which basically means that they will allow them to sell it for less than what the bank is owed on the property.

Christine: Right.

Raymond: If they don't want to do that or the bank doesn't want to do it or the people stop paying and don't want to listen to those options, then it just goes to foreclosure. At that point the bank is still going to have to abide by what the fair market value is.

Christine: Right.

Raymond: So, the big losers here, if you want to call it that...

Christine: Are the banks.

Raymond: Are the banks who really wrote more than they should have. So, in that scenario the banks are the ones that would take that loss.

Christine: Then, we are also hearing that short sales are just a long, arduous process.

Raymond: They are; they are.

Christine: And the agents are putting in offers for that short sale. The banks or lenders are taking weeks and weeks, if not months and months, to respond.

Raymond: This is all true.

Christine: And by that time then the property does go into foreclosure. So, for your regular everyday investor, don't you think it is just easier to go in and buy just a property that is on the market that's fairly priced with the market prices rather than going through all that crazy short sale and foreclosure process and going back and forth with the bank for an everyday person, like you and I, as opposed to an investor.

Raymond: Well, that's a good point; however, and I think, what we are confusing here is... You are right. For instance, a regular person who just owns the property, it would be much easier to purchase from them. You get a much quicker answer. It is much easier. The short sale is where it is very, very tedious. The bank has to say yes or no. There is third party approval.

Now, the other side of that is the REO, which as I mentioned, is a bank owned property. Now once it has gone through foreclosure; the short sale is before the foreclosure. The bank owned is after the foreclosure and once the bank owns it, it is almost back to being a normal transaction. The bank, for the ones that we've done; they will respond in two to three days maximum and they say yes or no. It is still using "as is" property. They are not going to do any repairs or anything like that, but you can still get it for fair market value.

We are actually focusing more as a broker. I am actually trying to focus the company more on these REOs because the short sales are just very, very difficult. And you said it best. If we have a client that wants to put an offer in on one, they make take two or three weeks. It could take a month and a half, and then they might not even take it anyway. You are taking up a lot of time. It's just not good so we are trying to either steer clear of them or have our clients purchase REOs if they are looking for an equity position upfront.

Christine: Right. So, now with all of that going on I am just trying to get into the mind of a regular buyer, somebody that just wants to go in and purchase a property in the Orlando area. Do you think that this sort of scares some people away going, "OK, are all these foreclosures...You know, I am kind of afraid to buy in that market because that foreclosure could be me next". Can you speak to that?

Raymond: Absolutely. That's definitely a concern, and I can completely understand anybody that is listening saying, "Oh my God. Why would I want to buy there if there are so many foreclosures?" I think people have to really realize that there were a lot of factors involved in what is going on in the housing situation, and mortgages in my opinion were a large percentage of it. Allowing people that probably shouldn't have had mortgages at all allowed the prices to continue to escalate beyond where they should have been two years ago.

Christine: Right.

Raymond: Now that they have changed, the government has already changed a lot of those policies as far as the mortgages. They stopped that about nine to 10 months ago. They stopped doing the interest only and the adjustable and all of this stuff that got us into trouble.

Christine: Right.

Raymond: And that has created these foreclosures. These foreclosures are purging out. We actually are working with some investor groups that that's all that they buy -foreclosures. There are definitely ways that these foreclosures are being bought up, and it is really going to create... A lot of people are going to have a lot of really nice properties at a very low rate in the long term. But, when these things disappear the market will be fine. The mortgage situation has already been fixed. It has been aligned correctly. I estimate it to be a year to two years before most of these foreclosures are purged out.

Christine: Right.

Raymond: And now that the lending standards are back to where they should have been, we will have a much more solid market now when that happens, but it is not going to be overnight, I'll agree.

Christine: Right. Right. Can you hold on one second? We just need to take a break for a word from our sponsors.

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Christine: And now, back to our show. So, in the Orlando market let's put the short sales and the foreclosures aside because I really do think those are for a different group of people to buy.

Raymond: They are more for the experienced investor. They are looking for leverage and an equity position. They are willing to accept all of the issues that come up.

Christine: Right, because buying an "as is" property could be really, you know...

Raymond: Exactly, and that's a good point.

Christine: Right.

Raymond: Sometimes, the post foreclosure REO property is at a great price; however, being that it's "as is" you might be inheriting some other issues. There's usually no furniture, or if you buy one from, and you know this, if you buy one that's on a regular seller, they're going to most likely leave the furniture. They're going to leave it in the best shape they possibly can.

Christine: Right.

Raymond: Where as the foreclosure is going to be quite the opposite.

Christine: Right.

Raymond: There'll be most likely no furniture and it could be damaged inside.

Christine: Yeah, so let's just look at this from a normal buyer's perspective.

Raymond: Sure, sure.

Christine: How is the market doing, I mean, are you seeing property starting to move yet?

Raymond: Absolutely.

Christine: OK.

Raymond: Absolutely.

Christine: Tell me about it.

Raymond: Now the issue there is that, and this kind of goes back to the comparison between the regular seller and the short sales/foreclosures, and the bank properties. The problem there lies, if you're looking at one particular subdivision, the least expensive properties in the subdivision when we pull it up on the MLS to show a client, there will be the short sales and the foreclosures. Which is a problem because that's the competition for the regular sellers.

Christine: Right.

Raymond: Now, a regular client doesn't understand that, and we do our best to try to explain. Look, these properties are undervalued because they're foreclosure properties. You don't want to deal with that, you know, you can just get a new one but they're a higher price because these people have to cover what they've paid.

Christine: Right.

Raymond: Whereas the banks can take that loss, a regular seller might not be able to absorb that. And fortunately that rolls down to a competition issue with these people who are competing against these bank owned properties. And for that we really need to, I don't want to use the words get rid of, but they need to sell to somebody. The investors need to buy them so we can realign with what the regular sellers need to get.

Christine: What seems to be selling at a faster pace right now? Your foreclosed properties or, you know, your regular on the market?

Raymond: The foreclosed properties are flying off the shelves.

Christine: Oh, OK.

Raymond: Because they can, like I said, the banks can take that loss and their price is just so far below. I mean, they're great deals, it's no question. It's like we said before, the short sales tend to be a little difficult to close. One of my agents has closed one this week, actually. But, you know, it's a very tedious process to bank on one. Everybody knows they're much easier to purchase, the banks get right back to you when they already own it.

Because at that point they've already lost, they usually lose about 50,000 dollars during a foreclosure process in addition to any equity lost.

Christine: Right.

Raymond: Once they've already absorbed that, they really would like to get it off of the book at that point. They want to get it off of their book, but they can't lend more money.

Christine: Right.

Raymond: That's where it's in there, but it's in their interest to sell it at whatever they can get. Is it bad for the people that are there? Yes, but it's good for whoever is purchasing it.

Christine: OK, so, tell me if I wanted to come into the Orlando market, what is the low end price that I can expect to pay?

Raymond: Here in the Disney area, keep in mind when people say Orlando, Orlando is Orange County, and Orange Country is very, very, very limited in that it does not allow short term rental. Only offer is County and right here in Clearpoint and Davenport, so in these areas we've been through the Disney corridor. A low end property would be anything from say 100 to 130 thousand. Most likely is two or three bedroom, two to three bedroom.

Christine: Is it a condo or single family?

Raymond: Those would be condos. In the mid range, somewhere between the 140 to 200 would be maybe a town home. A single family home with a pool and swimming, we're talking with pools, adjacent to Disney would be anywhere from low 200 and up.

Christine: OK, so that's not so bad.

Raymond: No, not at all.

Christine: Now tell me about the rental market. How well, you know, it's another thing I get onto sites like VRBO and home away and I look and I'm like, oh my gosh, there are so many properties in the Orlando area. And I talk to a lot of people that go to Orlando and they say, well I just want to stay at Disney for the ease of use, so explain to me the rental market there and how well it's doing.

You know, it seems to be pretty saturated and I look at the prices of properties that are renting, and I'm like, wow this is a five bedroom house with a pool and it's only a thousand dollars a week. So, tell me about it.

Raymond: Right. Well, I think, there's another comparison there. And what allows a company to do it, what a lot of companies are trying to do with it; they're trying to get a little bit of market share. The numbers are 80 percent of the people who come here to the Disney area stay in hotels or motels or what have you. There's only 20 percent market share for the whole vocational industry.

Now, there's obviously a lot of property, a lot of people have purchased for that reason. But, I think, to be quite honest I think, a lot of people could benefit with a home away in all the research they have on learning how to either do it themselves, I know that's your thing.

Christine: Right.

Raymond: Even if they don't, to fill in the gap from a random company or to be a random company, but just to be a little proactive. I mean, I had some clients yesterday who told me, this is ironic, I said look you can go to homeway.com, and they said nope, nope, we don't want to do anything.

Christine: Right.

Raymond: And there's a lot of people that are like that, and if that's the case then get a managing company and, you know, don't complain just because you don't like it because you don't want to be proactive.

Christine: Correct.

Raymond: You can actually fill them up very well on your own or with the managing company and make it as successful an investment as you know and get it rented, because like I said the alternative is hotels and motels. And as a product, staying at a vacation home, even if it's a condo, townhome, single family, you're going to get more space, and less money. You know, it's just a great product.

Christine: OK, you said something; you said you'd fill it up. Define fill it up. Does that mean I'm renting at 52 weeks a year?

Raymond: No, no.

[laughs]

Raymond: That's funny you say that, I've been telling clients forever. 52 weeks a year is not possible.

Christine: Right, right.

Raymond: First of all, you have days where you have to clean, so it's mathematically impossible to begin with, and there are just very few managing companies who can do that. You might disagree, but...

Christine: I do same day turnover. I do same day turnover.

Raymond: You do a lot of back to back?

Christine: Oh, sure. Absolutely.

Raymond: But, I mean, what I try to tell people is if you want to do it yourself, it's probably the best way to go. A lot of people want to have their hands off; they'd rather have the manager company do it. That's fine, I don't recommend that, but that's fine. But, at least put it on some other websites and fill in some gaps. Like we said, you're not going to get 52 weeks, but if a managing company is doing 30 or 35, maybe you need to get another five to 10 with doing your own.

Christine: Right.

Raymond: And that would be what I would consider filling.

Christine: Well, the cave there is that some property managers do not allow you to market, so you definitely do need to check your contract and you need to double check to make sure. So, are you saying that the average is about 30 weeks or 35 weeks? What is the average?

Raymond: Yeah, it's somewhere between 50 and 60 to 65 percent. 65 would be high for a management company on the realm, but with no help from you and no pro-activity from the owner it would be 50 to 65.

Christine: 50 to 65 percent occupancy rate, which is 25 to 35 weeks a year that you can expect to rent it. Now, OK, so let's talk to the rental rate. You know, like I said, you know, there's properties on VRBO and HomeAway, even on some property management sites I've looked at them. I go, oh my gosh it's a five bedroom place with a pool and close to Disney and its a thousand dollars a week!

To me, the math doesn't seem to work. That, you know, it's so cheap. Can somebody buy a property and break even in regards to the rental revenue if they're doing it themselves?

Raymond: That's an excellent question. I was actually going to get to that when you said a second ago that you see somebody who sells a five bedroom for a thousand a week. That's almost directly related to the purchase portion of that investment. If they purchase it, the higher the market they can't really sell it for a thousand dollars a week.

Christine: Right.

Raymond: That is almost directly related to the purchase portion of that investment. If they purchased at the height of the market they really can't sell it for $1000 a week. It is really directly related to how they were able to purchase it. Now, ‑‑to answer the second part of your question‑‑with the corrected market it is much easier. Like I said, depending on their pro-activity, how much they want to do on their own or what management company they choose for that matter. There are smaller ones, there are good ones, there are bad ones, as you know. Depending on that, the prices are back to where that is attainable.

I use an example of where it is not attainable in my opinion. Reunion, I am sure you know about reunion.

Christine: Right.

Raymond: Reunion, you can only use their on‑site management. If you don't, they don't allow the guests to use certain amenities. That's just how they do it. I don't agree with it, but that's how they do it.

Christine: Right.

Raymond: However, those homes are a million dollars.

Christine: Right.

Raymond: Those condos are $300,000, and they are for two bedrooms. You just can't break even at those numbers. Here in the regular area next to Disney when you can pick up a condo for 120 to 150, now you don't have to rent it for that much to break even.

Christine: Correct.

Raymond: And you don't have to do that much. It is much easier now in the corrected market.

Christine: OK. OK. So, it is much easier or even if, let's just say‑play the devil's advocate‑the market drops tomorrow. So, if you buy this condo or town home or house‑let's just say you bought a house for $200,000, you are renting it 25 to 35 weeks a year. If that property is breaking even during the time of ownership, it doesn't matter if it drops in price. Maybe, that $200,000 property drops in price to $150,000 tomorrow. As long as it is paying for all of its expenses associated with owning that property, then, you have the liberty to be able to ride out that storm.

Raymond: Absolutely. Well said. Absolutely.

Christine: You know, it's funny. I was talking to someone the other day who said they had owned a condo, a vacation condo. This was back in the 80s, and they said that they went to go sell it, and the market had dropped so much that they had to go to the closing table with cash. Literally, they as sellers had to pay in order to sell this property.

You know what they said? They were like, "Man, I only wish I would have just held on to that property because today that property is worth a lot more money.” So, I think, it is keeping your mind on the long term.

Raymond: Absolutely, and we spoke on that earlier. If you look at it and attain it as a long term investment, it will be fine. Like I said, the flipping thing was just so bad, and it just changed everyone's mentality on what to do with them. They were just buying. They had no intention of renting.

Christine: Right.

Raymond: That's just not good, but, yes, long term. You said it best. If you are buying it at $200,000 and it is paying for itself and it goes to 150 it is not a real loss yet. I mean, it is paying for itself. You have tax advantages. You are writing off the things that you are doing. If you are renting as a business, as I am sure you tell people to do, you have a lot of tax write‑offs. You have a lot of different ways to utilize the property, not just from the rentals. In the long term it will go back up, and you will have the equity position as well, but during the time that you have it, as long as it is close, you are fine.

Christine: Right. Raymond, you said that all so eloquently. I guess, we are going to all kind of wrap our heads around today's market. We have got to read and be informed, but also don't be scared off because you have to realize that some of what we read and hear is overly negative. But, at the same time there is some truth in it, and you just need to make some really educated and well thought out decisions, making sure that you are buying in the proper area, making sure that you are going through the proper real estate agents.

I found it really interesting that you and your brokerage firm really specialize in only vacation homes, and I think that is really important for someone to look for when they are looking for a real estate agent because you have to realize that when you are buying a primary residence versus buying a second home it is going to be a significantly different process. When you are buying a primary residence, you are worried about the schools in the area.

Raymond: Absolutely.

Christine: You are worried about proximity to the interstate so you can get to work easily. You are worried about different things than if you were to buy a vacation home, a second home. Also, the nuances that go along with owning a second home, such as‑like you said‑there are some parts of Orange County that do not allow you to rent on a short term basis. That is really important to know.

There are also different ramifications, especially in the state of Florida with regards to being non‑homestead exempt on your property taxes.

Raymond: Absolutely.

Christine: It is a different tax rate, so going to somebody who primarily sells second homes, vacation homes I think, is a really important and really good thing to do.

Now, your website. It is raybutterfield.com. If you want to reach Raymond via telephone, his phone number is area code 407‑397‑1599. Again, its 407‑397‑1599, and he is at extension 5200.

Raymond: Yes.

Christine: Thank you so much, Raymond, for sharing this. I know we kind of went off a little bit more on a tangent about the foreclosures, but...

Raymond: But, that is the reality of today's market. It definitely needs to be addressed.

Christine: Absolutely. We did a previous podcast about it, and we got some questions. I didn't realize you were so well versed in it, so we kind of jumped into it. It is certainly interesting to hear about the differences between the time share selling and the primary residence selling. I think, it is obvious from speaking with you that you are a very knowledgeable real estate agent and broker in your area.

Certainly, if anybody is listening and is looking into buy in that market, obviously, Raymond has a good knowledge of both the real estate world and the rental world which is so important.

Again, thank you again for joining, and do you have any other closing remarks before we finish?

Raymond: Just to let everyone know that is listening, to speak on the point that you made earlier based on what you see on TV, you have to realize that real estate is very, very, very local in nature. This area is even more of a niche market where if you were to call somebody in Orlando and ask them about the Disney area, they would probably try to sell it to you but it's not what they do on a daily basis as we do.

Christine: Right.

Raymond: I mean, we have a whole different set of parameters that we look out for our clients. They are not looking for the schools or the interstates; they are looking for proximity to Disney, amenities of the resort, the rentability of the resort. And that was our business plan from day one. It was just a focus on this type of property so that we could be the best liaison that a client could have in purchasing.

Christine: Excellent. I agree with you a hundred percent. Well, Raymond, that wraps up today's show. Thank you so much for joining us.

Raymond: Thank you very much for having me.

Christine: Have a great day.

Raymond: Thank you. Thanks, Christine.